2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! so these are less preferred. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. connection to the dac chip. - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. None, despite working back as I always do if theres an issue! Sound Media Group Pty Ltd The Base module is used on the two lower DACs (including this one) and then the Preamp Output Stage for the top two DACs in the range. Gbel High End [Divin Noblesse], [Divin Marquis], ([Epoque Aeon Fine]). The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. All in all the Discrete DAC is beautiful looking, minimal, easy to set up (its all but plug and play if you turn both the PSUs on) and it feels like a proper bit of audio engineering. Thanks. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their Thanks. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. I can see that in an A/B comparison, many other DACs sound more impressive than DAVE/Blu2. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. Others might disagree but these are my findings. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. What ice cream do you prefer? It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. I'm doing this off the top of my head. You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. A modular I/O card keeps even the discrete DAC flexible, repairable, and upgradeable. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. "Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. It has the option for two PSUs and once you hear with both it becomes a necessity to have both. Additionally, MSBs robust in-house design enables the finest quality playback of PCM and native DSD, while our low impedance circuitry drives your amplification directly without adding coloration or buffering noise. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Is it too hot to touch? Like the rest of the DACs in the MSB range, the Select DAC is modular in its architecture with each of the modules being produced in house, as outlined above. retail client forgets that most audio stores and audio distribution companies that it is difficult to say you have the best in regard to dacs but Rockna is I havent heard the Rockna. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. Not a bad idea Snoop! But dont take our word for it. Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. It seems to take in zeros and ones and then somehow make sense of these and just convert them into faithful reproductions of the recording though me not being at the recording of any of the records I listened to, thats my assumption coming into play. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. UPnP Protocol Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. Get a Lampi Golden Gate Dac and match it with the RK5u4g rectifier and PX25 DHTs or the RK242 DHT. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? The SQ is amazingly good. I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. Powered by Invision Community. EAR FILLERS HiFi Pig Playlists on Qobuz, Transatlantic Dispatches: A New World Disorder, Astell&Kern Launch Three New Products At High End Munich 2022. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. It is an unassuming but very nicely put together component that has had a great deal of thought put into the architecture of the parts that make it up. You are using an out of date browser. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. I can leave my hand on it as long as I want to. @astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17 i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for its greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. Up to 1km lossless transmission. The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. Im participating to both learn and make suggestions where I have experience that may help. The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. @shkong78 Thanks for sharing your listening impressions of the Lampizator Pacific vs the MSB DACs as well as what you miss about the Pacific vs your Chord combo. Im getting a bit away from the review proper, but Im sure you can see why I have added that little diversion. luxury apartment hotels paris. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. Auction bid 7 150 25 . Who knows ?! As you pursue higher levels of playback, an MSB upgrade path is always available to help drive your own desire for innovation. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. The Discrete DAC we have here is the baby of the four DACs MSB produces, with the top-of-the-range Select DAC boldly proclaiming to be the worlds finest DAC. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. In that price range, you would be mad not to add the MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. I hope you understand. Never use!! Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, the FPGA handles digital processing only, not conversion from digital to analog. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. Many of these were already in a shootout on Audiogon with the same requirements - has to sound stellar on 16/44.1 tracks: I agree that the DAVE plus Blu 2 is spectacular, but not in a "hi fi" sense. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. The video cannot be shown. and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. Putting price aside, what are your thoughts about the Hugo TT as an integrated DAC+amp? I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. Chord states "DAVE is the most advanced DAC we have ever made. That is not to say that a preamp doesn't produce value with respect to other sound quality characteristics that may affect the personal appeal of the musical reproduction (e.g., soundstage), or that the extra transparency won't reveal system issues, but there is no question that transparency is higher when going straight to the amps. But dont take our word for it. The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. It seems to me that manufacturers are jacking up the price for the perception of quality. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. So take it for what it is. Nothing was amiss. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. Roon Endpoint Thank you all for your answers. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. Nice. Thanks. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! Much appreciated. It's just more financially viable to me for the performance and price ratio. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. I found it big bold brash and dynamic but hard cold glary and fatiguing - all the old fashioned things I hated about early digital. Our publication is supported by its audience. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). Did you audition all of them in the same place with the same system? As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. Price 9k in the U.K. You must log in or register to reply here. There are separate optimal PCM and DSD modes for playbacks and bit perfect playback is how DAVE performs optimally as the FPGA up samples and noise shapes everything to 104MHz 5-bit. I think people buy what they like. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. This latter track is a good track for me to play when listening to new kit as it is basically a drum machine and an acid box and this latter did sound just like a 303 there in the room. I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. very important and our preference connection is an i2S connection. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. I don't have that kind of money. I expected a lot better. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. Click to expand. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. Up to 4X DSD Thank me laterLoL. Main Menu RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. By It's my understanding that the Wavedream only With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . Different songs will sound better with different sources - Different horses for different courses. what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. JavaScript is disabled. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? The world's largest high-end audio community. Is this what passes for high end? 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. We are Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. the Select II pushes the analog to be its best. This one has similar sound signature to MSB Premier But it is half notch below MSB Premier on dynamics, details, soundstage. personal preference. At some point you have to be content in this hobby. Hope to try different formats on both DACs to see what works best in my system. There is scale on bigger productions and intimacy on smaller-scale recordings and pieces, It wont make a pigs ear into a sows purse, but its majestic on really good recordings, Its very detailed but not harshly so actually, its a very easy component to fit in a system and live with, Its not cheap and you will want both PSUs once you compare with just one, No analogue inputs to make it the heart of a full system, You know that MSB have stuff that is out of reach financially and potentially better, Price: 11,000 plus 1,650 for a second power supply. I have great synergy in my system and see no reason to listen to every new DAC out there. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. Links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Hifi Pig and Big Pig Media with appropriate and specific direction (link) to the original content. But of course, I love window shopping and perusing top tier systems including illustrious more familiar gear like Lampi, TD, MSB, Ares Cerat, Aqua. home system and listening for that end result. Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? How does it compare? MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. Always use!! Would I pay extra for the second supply? So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. Toggle signature. But the majority of the time all 6 of They are excellent pairing. For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! Jon Hopkins Music For Psychedelic Therapy was a beautifully enveloping experience, made all the more so as sounds come and go in the soundstage in a somewhat more solid way than without the usual DAC. Out of all of the DACs I've but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme.
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