I appreciate the details of Brents experience. 2005, page 147, 180, Sillitoe, L., & Roberts, A. D. (1988). Hibbard later had a dream in which he again. Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. Its a band called The Lower Lights. It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. What has been the ramifications to your excommunication among other family members? Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. Were they watching us? Brents work is groundbreaking and reliably fascinating. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. No one believed that any one person could do all of those forgeries and build those bombs, and kill those people . I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? Really, such a great family. Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. @BHMetcalf. brent metcalfe excommunicated - knowthemquicker.com Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. As an atheist I am not without my own inconvenient truths. If you ever get the chance to talk with Steve Christensens wife and/or Brent Metcalfe again, I would like to hear you explore this dichotomy with them as they are polar opposites. Iowa's Brent Metcalf wrestles with Iowa State's Mitch Mueller during their 149 pound match Friday, March 19, 2010 in the quarterfinal round of the 2010 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling Championships at . In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) My curiosity was piqued by something Brent briefly alluded to. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? If so, what will be the subject? It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. Mark Metcalfe - Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division - LinkedIn I hope to move on some day as well. Roger that. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. Brent Metcalf's Instagram, Twitter & Facebook on IDCrawl Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. Thanks! Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. Life changing! Yes! The lengthy, five-part series covers Metcalfes childhood in Mormonism, his mission, his time []. This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. It was so amazing to hear another person explain nearly my identical experience. Or if you have any thoughts on this John? Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. I just looked down at the paper and I felt this wave of total anxiety come over me and then all of a sudden it was like my brain stopped working and it felt like I was looking at a different language. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). Awesome music, right? Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/493__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_1.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/494__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_2.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-497-BrentMetcalfePt3.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-498-BrentMetcalfePt4.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499-BrentMetcalfePt5.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499b-BrentMetcalfePt6.mp3, https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm, Signature Books Mormon News, October 1317. None of this means that believing scholars and secular scholars have to treat each other poorly or that we cannot respect (even in the midst of serious disagreement) each others work. My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. Phooey to that. I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. Before Mark Hoffman was exposed as a forger, was there anything that made you wonder how he managed to make so many great finds? Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. 1. To those people like me, however, who find themselves on the butt end of his speeches, may consider him to come across as aggressive, brash and unsympathetic. The Book of Abraham? Thank you John and Brent. Carl, in parts 3 & 4 of the interview, Ill discuss the BoAbr and some of the challenges that believing scholars face in analyzing its ideational and textual origins. (The audio starts in Part 1 around 1:23.55) I did a little research and found a digitized & searchable copy of Elias Smiths autobiography. Why didnt Mr. Metcalfe publish his long-anticipated book disproving the Book of Abraham? I was hoping you would have spoken more about the Book of Mormon and Abraham. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Brent Lee Metcalfe - Wikipedia In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. :( Will re-record hopefully soon! Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. It all depends on the depth of study one does. When will the big book about the Egytian papers be out? They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. After returning from Iraq after the 2nd deployment as a citizen soldier, I had the same epiphany as Brent; I learned that we are really on our own, there is no God. Im was left kind of hot but dry after hoping to hear about his drama with the church and its leaders.any chance of allowing closure for me here? Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. It was soul-crushing, Brent said. She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. Now, alas, Im left to figure out why I dont personally do more to address the real-life hell that is meanwhile breaking loose in the world, now that I understand also that no gods exist to help us. Download . Brent did a marvelous job of creating a context by which these events took place. Or at least, Lets Take this Puppy Down.. This was an important, affecting interview. dave davies wife. Brent Metcalf was a bad dude in high school. What are your views about these books and how some contemporary Mormon scholars approach them as catalytic for revelation, though they may not specifically be historical? Are there still more episodes of this series on the way?? The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight. I remember one time a BYU professor handed me a long quote to read out loud to the class when I walked in and I almost had the first major public panic attack of my life. [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. If Catholicism were ultimately true, for example, then in the final accounting its dogmatic claims would not be hamstringing- they would serve as a clarifying lens through which to analyze historical questions, a lens which helps the believing scholar from wasting his time investigating a false path. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. That makes more sense. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. Thank you so much for the story and the insights. Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe Story - YouTube Is there a list of Mormon historians who were ex'd because of the I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. What academic qualifications does Mr. Metcalfe have to authoritatively speak on subjects like the historicity of the Book of Abraham? I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. Sincerely, Terry. As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. Once you start to deconstruct Mormonism, the next step is Christianity, and then the existence of a god, or not There are plenty of stops along that road to hang your hat, but the fastest growing belief system around the existence of god, is atheism. He said that a response finally came not from Hofmann but from one of the Lafferty brothers who was apparently Hofmanns cell mate or on the same block or something like that. After all, he was the one who had introduced him to Steve Christensen, the first of Marks victims. [] author and editor of numerous articles and two Signature Books titles, was interviewed by John Dehlin for the Mormon Stories podcast recently. Is there going to be a part 3? There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. Thanks for the great podcast. I teared up with Brent during that part. Cookie Notice I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. Brent Metcalf is entering his fifth season as a full-time assistant coach on Iowa State's wrestling staff. For one thing, you were damn good at martial arts. In True Crime Series 'Murder Among the Mormons,' LDS Church Reckons I understand the church spent large sums of money on BYU professors and private research to bolster the Book of Mormon claims through archeological discoveries.unfortunately they have not found what they had hoped for. Thanks again Brent for sharing a sketch of your life with us. From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. Truth or legend? Why didnt the Lord reveal to the the prophet that Hofmann was going to kill? I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. How have things changed over the decades? Brent Metcalf's last collegiate wrestling match was a highly anticipated one. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. What an amazing life Brent! Privacy Policy. Thank you so much for being so open and honest that particular issue. It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. What would you say are the most significant developments in the critiques of the church in the past 20 years that didnt exist beforehand? 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his - IMDb I thought you were very well spoken Brent. The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. On Wiwikipedia, it mentions that in a hit piece done by Dan Peterson, that he encodeds the message, Metcalfe is a butthead. What were your qurarrels like with FARMS? Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. D&C 76:2021). What was most poignant to me was Brents description of his failure of faith. Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. Thanks again Brent! I had no idea what your beliefs were and it piqued my interest in part 1 where you talked about scripture being inspirational yet often times not historical. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. I do remember after my baptismal interview having a strong feeling of love and admiration for him because someone so respected thought I was special too. I was going to ask the same thing. Brent H Metcalf, 71 Resides in Salt Lake City, UT Lived In Sandy UT Related To Kyle Metcalf, Molly Metcalf, Kristy Metcalf, Nicole Metcalf Includes Address (3) Phone (4) Email (3) See Results Brent Charles Metcalf, 55 Resides in Lowell, AR Lived In Modesto CA, Oroville CA, Bonney Lake WA Also known as Gary Brent, Metcalf Brent Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. the tall man aboriginal spirit; metadata api request failed: component conversion failed: file_ended; caleb foote sandlot What a fascinating glimpse. Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. Brent Metcalf's Career Timeline - FloWrestling Its great to find all this background information. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. Thank you for this very interesting presentation. Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. According to Krakauer, the letter said something to the effect of, Mark wont talk to you, but I will, and you definitely want to talk to me. That response introduced Krakauer to the Laffertys and gave him the story he needed to animate what he considered his analysis of radical faith. Is it paramount to understand all of these religious histories and come to terms with them or, Brant for people like you and me, would it be better to turn our talents toward uncovering and deciphering Gobekli Tepe, a stone temple complex built 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age in Turkey, built by the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition? Brent Metcalfe - Academia.edu So, so good. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? Brent, a sophomore at the University of Iowa, completed a very hectic. I have question on the Book of Abraham. this was fascinating, and I havent got to part 2 yet! Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. Daniel Kahneman speaks in terms of efficient Thinking Fast biases that unconsciously deploy the WYSIATI (What-You-See-Is-All-There-Is) heuristic, which has proved itself sufficiently satisficing for selection. Thank you for this interview. And a small footnote: Many of these original founders had been part of an on-campus group, called the Open Door Club. We had some technical difficulties. Hope all is good with you. Why didnt the church just pay for their own documents? That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. Well also talk about the recent history of BYUs Maxwell Institute and what he sees in its future and in the future of Mormon apologetics overall. Brenten "Brent" Metcalfe joined NW3C after working in law enforcement for over 13 years. https://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=24440. ), systematically undermining Church teachings on the law of chastity and the . By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Funny how I was taught at BYU The Glory of God is Intelligence I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. Brent Metcalf - Wikipedia Now that the new Netflix documentary Murder Among the Mormons has come out, it also validates the important witness that Brent was in this event. I need help with casting ZEE5 on my TV. location 502, 899, 5027 of 9578, Last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "The LDS intellectual community and church leadership: A contemporary chronology", BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS, "MAPPING BOOK OF MORMON HISTORICITY DEBATESPART I", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brent_Lee_Metcalfe&oldid=1129585083, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. We have to learn to get along and improve our conditions wherever we are and it is a much more difficult task because of all the varied belief systems prevalent in the world. Resolved: Release in which this issue/RFE has been resolved. January 15, 2015. Ive followed Mormon stories for several years now and listed to most of the episodes and this interview with Brent Metcalfe is in my top 5 MS podcasts. Thank you Brandt for sharing your experiences. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Our interview continues tonight!!! For more information, please see our Menu. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. Seventh East Press. I am war weary defending truths that just dont appear true anymore. [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. Nicely done, John. But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. When I was on my mission in the early 70s, we were encouraged to show a film called Ancient America Speaks. Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. John Are you done interviewing faithful members or promoting faithful stories? Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. There are so many parallels between the happenings in my LDS life and Brents, (although nothing to such depth and notoriety) I was drawn to find more information about his life, while he was in the church and out. Visit with the Skabelund family, 9:30-10:30 am,. Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. Please let us know. Perhaps it has something to do with the frightening and daunting implications of this inconvenient truth. And theres no way that you can change it. However, they still mention other things in their presentations (if you can stand to listen to them; I dont particularly like Jake Hiltons rhetoric, but Wayne May is pretty interesting to listen to)that are pretty fascinating and almost convincing.
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